Discussion:
RTI REPLY - HELP REQUESTED
(too old to reply)
satnam singh
2011-09-22 12:20:24 UTC
Permalink
Dear All,

I have been following the mails on RTI quite keenly. 

Can anyone guide me on following:-

I had been seeking some information about an officer from the Indian Army since 
May 2011. I was informed in Jun 2011 that passing on of  the information has to 
concurred by the officer. I waited for more than a month, after the first reply, but 
did not hear from the Army Authorities.

I  have sent five (5) reminders to the Army since then. The Army has not even 
bothered to reply to me after the first letter. Even my reminders have not been acknowledged. It seems the officer has not even bothered to reply to the Army. 
Can he keep mum and get away by hood winking the system? NO SECRET 
INFORMATION has been asked; it is only pertaining to the administrative matters. 

The officer is resisting to part with the information and I have a strong feeling that the system/organisation is unduly protecting him.

Under the circumstances, what are my rights to get the details from the Army. 
Can I go to the court against the Indian Army?

Warm Regards
Satnam
Sarbajit Roy
2011-09-22 13:28:36 UTC
Permalink
Sir

I assume that you requested some information from Army under RTI Act in May
2011. It further appears that the information is "third party" information
(see sec. 11 of RTI Act) which requires a notice to be sent to the concerned
3rd party seeking his objections if any.

As you have not received any information beyond the initial reply, you must
IMMEDIATELY file a "first appeal" (see sec 19 of RTI Act) to the designated
/ concerned "First Appellate" authority. You are supposed to do this within
75 days of filing your RTI request (since 3rd party is involved).

Sarbajit
Post by satnam singh
Dear All,
I have been following the mails on RTI quite keenly.
Can anyone guide me on following:-
I had been seeking some information about an officer from the Indian Army
since
May 2011. I was informed in Jun 2011 that passing on of the information
has to
concurred by the officer. I waited for more than a month, after the first
reply, but
did not hear from the Army Authorities.
I have sent five (5) reminders to the Army since then. The Army has not
even
bothered to reply to me after the first letter. Even my reminders have not
been acknowledged. It seems the officer has not even bothered to reply to
the Army.
Can he keep mum and get away by hood winking the system? NO SECRET
INFORMATION has been asked; it is only pertaining to the administrative
matters.
The officer is resisting to part with the information and I have a strong
feeling that the system/organisation is unduly protecting him.
Under the circumstances, what are my rights to get the details from the
Army.
Can I go to the court against the Indian Army?
Warm Regards
Satnam
surinder pal
2011-09-23 01:11:59 UTC
Permalink
Satnam ji,

Do not make unnecessary correspondence with the Army now. You should have either filed the first appeal to the FAA after one month of application followed by IInd appeal with the Central Information Commission. You may file complaint also.

SPA


________________________________
From: satnam singh <colsatnam_61-/***@public.gmane.org>
To: "***@googlegroups.com" <humjanenge-/***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Thursday, 22 September 2011 5:50 PM
Subject: [HumJanenge] RTI REPLY - HELP REQUESTED


Dear All,

I have been following the mails on RTI quite keenly. 

Can anyone guide me on following:-

I had been seeking some information about an officer from the Indian Army since 
May 2011. I was informed in Jun 2011 that passing on of  the information has to 
concurred by the officer. I waited for more than a month, after the first reply, but 
did not hear from the Army Authorities.

I  have sent five (5) reminders to the Army since then. The Army has not even 
bothered to reply to me after the first letter. Even my reminders have not been acknowledged. It seems the officer has not even bothered to reply to the Army. 
Can he keep mum and get away by hood winking the system? NO SECRET 
INFORMATION has been asked; it is only pertaining to the administrative matters. 

The officer is resisting to part with the information and I have a strong feeling that the system/organisation is unduly protecting him.

Under the circumstances, what are my rights to get the details from the Army. 
Can I go to the court against the Indian Army?

Warm Regards
Satnam
Manoj Pai
2011-09-23 03:44:31 UTC
Permalink
Looks like you missed the post on Sarbajit's revelation about the time limit of 75 days instead of one month as there was a third party involved here, Surinder.

Filing a complain with CIC U/s 18 does not seem to help these days, as the ICs have adopted the strategy of reverting this complain back to the FAA.

Manoj
--- On Fri, 9/23/11, surinder pal <lsa_ludhiana-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: surinder pal <lsa_ludhiana-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI REPLY - HELP REQUESTED
To: "humjanenge-/***@public.gmane.org" <humjanenge-/***@public.gmane.org>
Date: Friday, September 23, 2011, 6:41 AM

Satnam ji,
Do not make unnecessary correspondence with the Army now. You should have either filed the first appeal to the FAA after one month of application followed by IInd appeal with the Central Information Commission. You may file complaint also.
SPA
sandeep kumar
2011-09-23 12:48:19 UTC
Permalink
as u have already filed the first appeal, please file complaint plus
first appeal with the CIC.
Post by surinder pal
Satnam ji,
Do not make unnecessary correspondence with the Army now. You should have
either filed the first appeal to the FAA after one month of application
followed by IInd appeal with the Central Information Commission. You may
file complaint also.
SPA
________________________________
Sent: Thursday, 22 September 2011 5:50 PM
Subject: [HumJanenge] RTI REPLY - HELP REQUESTED
Dear All,
I have been following the mails on RTI quite keenly.
Can anyone guide me on following:-
I had been seeking some information about an officer from the Indian Army
since
May 2011. I was informed in Jun 2011 that passing on of  the information has
to
concurred by the officer. I waited for more than a month, after the first
reply, but
did not hear from the Army Authorities.
I  have sent five (5) reminders to the Army since then. The Army has not
even
bothered to reply to me after the first letter. Even my reminders have not
been acknowledged. It seems the officer has not even bothered to reply to
the Army.
Can he keep mum and get away by hood winking the system? NO SECRET
INFORMATION has been asked; it is only pertaining to the administrative
matters.
The officer is resisting to part with the information and I have a strong
feeling that the system/organisation is unduly protecting him.
Under the circumstances, what are my rights to get the details from the
Army.
Can I go to the court against the Indian Army?
Warm Regards
Satnam
--
Dr. Sandeep Kumar Gupta
989, Sector 15-A, Opposite bishnoi Colony, Hisar-125001, INDIA
Phone: 91-99929-31181
ashok bhardwaj
2011-09-23 03:45:08 UTC
Permalink
The offr obviously does not wish to disclose the information you want from him , he has his rights too and the Army is absolutely correct in withholding info on offr's whereabouts. It could be an harassment for the concerned person if his add/tele no etc were disclosed to an outsider by the Army authorities without the latter's consent.
 


________________________________
From: satnam singh <colsatnam_61-/***@public.gmane.org>
To: "***@googlegroups.com" <humjanenge-/***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Thursday, 22 September 2011 5:20 AM
Subject: [HumJanenge] RTI REPLY - HELP REQUESTED


Dear All,

I have been following the mails on RTI quite keenly. 

Can anyone guide me on following:-

I had been seeking some information about an officer from the Indian Army since 
May 2011. I was informed in Jun 2011 that passing on of  the information has to 
concurred by the officer. I waited for more than a month, after the first reply, but 
did not hear from the Army Authorities.

I  have sent five (5) reminders to the Army since then. The Army has not even 
bothered to reply to me after the first letter. Even my reminders have not been acknowledged. It seems the officer has not even bothered to reply to the Army. 
Can he keep mum and get away by hood winking the system? NO SECRET 
INFORMATION has been asked; it is only pertaining to the administrative matters. 

The officer is resisting to part with the information and I have a strong feeling that the system/organisation is unduly protecting him.

Under the circumstances, what are my rights to get the details from the Army. 
Can I go to the court against the Indian Army?

Warm Regards
Satnam
JSD PANI
2011-09-24 05:19:50 UTC
Permalink
I have read the mails. Let us not go with emotions. Activism is not emotion,
though emotion triggers activism.
Assume that PIO is asking for proof of citizenship as a delay tactics or to
make the applicant frustrate and refrain him from making applications.
Well. At the same time as a responsible citizens we need to respect the
legslation. Legislation say that information can be obtained by the citizens
of India. Hence it becomes our responsibility to provide proof of
citizenship when demanded by the PIO. There are ID's to establish
citizenship.

Regards
JSD Pani
Dear Captain ,
RTI Act Works on the Idea & Ideal of the Citizen of This Country Being the
Master and All Public servants , Servants of this Master . democracy is For
,by & To the people .
There fore If you Understand this Great Principle and Practice it , There
should Not Be any Address as To the "PLEASE" Because the Public servant
Works at The pleasure of the Master not Vice -versa .
If There are people Who want to scuttle the Act , We Should Not surrender
to Such Persons But Fight them Effuciently
The question of One Being of or From same department , Kith Or kin Does not
arise .
By Your Prefix I Understand you yourself Must be an Ex service man and Are
kindly aware of the Age old proverb "every thing is Fair in love & War "
Since RTI act 2 005 Has a Preamble Which Speaks of "Containing Corruption
and Hold the Govt's & its instrumentalities Accountable to the Governed
and If Relavation of Information in actual Practice is Likely to conflict
..... etc and therefore it is Expedient to provide for Furnishing Certain
Information to Citizen who desire to have it .
Therefore There is a conflict here of the actual practice and RTI Act
2006 Prevails .
Here as Per the Mail The seeker or requester is an retd Officer and He will
Not be in possetion of the ID Card , since He will have surrenderd it at the
time retirement .
Also If You Read the ID Card Will There be a mention or Any Mark , Etching
or Any Indication that the Card Holder is an Citizen of India .
If I am the PIO i will Certainly Query this Next on your submission of the
ID Because i am a dubting tom and want to carry effient Opertation of My
JOB
Due Have any Counter to this line of argument
N vikramsimha , KRIA Katte , #12 Sumeru Sir M N Krishna Rao Road ,
Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 4:54 PM
please send a photo copy of your id which prooves that you are a citizen
of india. please remember there are plenty of people who wants to scuttle
the Act, frustrate an applicant so that he/she stop asking questions,
particularly if one belongs to same deptt.
Subject: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
Date: Tuesday, 20 September, 2011, 3:06 PM
M. Rangarajan,
*(retired Group General Manager ONGC)*
B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,
Chellaghatta village,
*Bangalore** – 560037*.
*Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581*
Dated 20th September 2011
Dear friends / RTI activists,
I asked for some information from M/s Chennai Petroleum Corporation Ltd, a
Government of India Undertaking under Ministry of Petroleum under RTI Act. I
am enclosing copy of letter for information of all.
In compliance with Sec 3 of Right to Information Act 2005, we request you
to kindly send us the proof for citizenship like a copy of Election Identity
Card, or a copy of tje Passport issued by Govt. of India or any document
duly attested by a Notory Public / Executive magistrate to eable us to
procede further.
Unquote.
I have sought information from many Cental Government Department, State
Government Departments, and Public Sector Undertaking etc and so for
none .have asked for proof of my Citizenship. This appear to be uncalled for
and illigal new trend.
I would very much appreciate some advise - how should I procede further.
warm regards / rangarajan
--
JSD Pani
Vikram Simha
2011-09-24 18:11:16 UTC
Permalink
Dear Pani Ji ,
Unfortunately , No where in the Act or Rules it Is Said /empowred/ delegated/Relegated /Discretion ptovided to demand from any Person by an PIO to his Citizenship. I Have already enumarated in My earlier Mails that InOur Country Each Card is unique and Serves an Purpose .
If I take your argument and Strecth It as Done and Carried by the Government and information commissioners  why are they Demanding the income certioficate from A BPL card Holder because of the Only That it is mentioned "to draw rations only" Like wise None of the Cards Issued to Any Of us Donot speak that we are citizens of india . Even in the Pass port it is written Nationality "INDIAN" which Means you are of Indian Nationality But No mention of Citzenship
Further under the Caption Registration it is Written Indian Citizens resident abroad are advised to register themselves at the nearest Inmdian Mission /post ...... Why is this Written .
Our Final argument is that No PIO or For that Matter Any Public servant  cannot interpret the act Which is soveriegn authority of the Parliament and therefore he is not Empowered to raise these absurd and fillibustrous Queries
I am now in preparation of Long and Lengthy Paper on this Very subject Matter .
It would suffice to state that in One of our Government Departments the Discretion to Spend emergency money as discretion was Rs 100/- and They were spending it even to Bring imprest and postal stamps but one Fine Day During an audit the auditor Said  when the Word is Rs 100/- it is only Upto Hundred so Spending Rs 99.99 is ok But NO No to Rs 100/- as it Violates the Discretionary power , so You Have to Get all others Reimbursed or Get them Approved . So then all our laks & laks of RTI requests in the Country Become Faulty in the sense they donot have Citizen proof of the requesters  and What should Be done Charge all PIOs under the Service /conduct Rules with At least Minority penalty proccedings ---- what an idea sirji ,
N vikramsimha , KRIA Katte , #12 Sumeru Sir M N Krishna Rao Road , Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.

--- On Sat, 24/9/11, JSD PANI <jsdpani-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


From: JSD PANI <jsdpani-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
To: humjanenge-/***@public.gmane.org
Date: Saturday, 24 September, 2011, 10:49 AM



I have read the mails. Let us not go with emotions. Activism is not emotion, though emotion triggers activism.
Assume that PIO is asking for proof of citizenship as a delay tactics or to make the applicant frustrate and refrain him from  making applications. Well. At the same time as a responsible citizens we need to respect the legslation. Legislation say that information can be obtained by the citizens of India.  Hence it becomes our responsibility to provide proof of citizenship when demanded by the PIO. There are ID's to establish citizenship.
 
Regards
JSD Pani


On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Vikram Simha <vikramsimha54-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:






Dear Captain ,
RTI Act Works on the Idea & Ideal of the Citizen of This Country Being the Master and All Public servants , Servants of this Master . democracy is For ,by & To the people .
There fore If you Understand this Great Principle and Practice it , There should Not Be any Address as To the "PLEASE" Because the Public servant Works at The pleasure of the Master not Vice -versa .
If There are people Who want to scuttle the Act , We Should Not surrender to Such Persons But Fight them Effuciently
The question of One Being of or From same department , Kith Or kin Does not arise .
By Your Prefix I Understand you yourself Must be an Ex service man and Are kindly aware of the Age old proverb "every thing is Fair in love & War "
Since RTI act 2 005 Has a Preamble Which Speaks of "Containing Corruption and Hold the Govt's & its instrumentalities Accountable to the Governed  and  If Relavation of Information in actual Practice is Likely to conflict ..... etc and therefore it is Expedient to provide for Furnishing Certain Information to Citizen who desire to have it .
Therefore There is a conflict here  of the actual practice  and RTI Act 2006 Prevails .
Here as Per the Mail The seeker or requester is an retd Officer and He will Not be in possetion of the ID Card , since He will have surrenderd it at the time retirement .
Also If You Read the ID Card Will There be a mention or Any Mark , Etching or Any Indication that the Card Holder is an Citizen of India .
If I am the PIO i will Certainly Query this Next on your submission of the ID  Because  i am a dubting tom and want to carry effient Opertation of My JOB
Due Have any Counter to this line of argument

N vikramsimha , KRIA Katte , #12 Sumeru Sir M N Krishna Rao Road , Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.

--- On Wed, 21/9/11, capt beniwal <trident142-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


From: capt beniwal <trident142-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
To: humjanenge-/***@public.gmane.org
Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 4:54 PM









please send a photo copy of your id which prooves that you are a citizen of india. please remember there are plenty of people who wants to scuttle the Act, frustrate an applicant so that he/she stop asking questions, particularly if one belongs to same deptt.    
--- On Tue, 20/9/11, Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


From: Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
To: "Y Humjanenge - google" <humjanenge-/***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Humjanenge - yahoo" <humjanenge-hHKSG33TihhqA26CCmlJIf8+***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Adhikar" <adhikaar-hHKSG33Tihh9OS/***@public.gmane.orgm>, "Y Anna Hazare" <annahazare1-***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Aridman" <***@nishanjustice.org>, "Y C K Jam" <rtiwanted-/***@public.gmane.org>, "Y rti_india" <***@googlegroups.com>, "Y Rti$empoerrment - google" <***@googlegroups.com>, "Y rti4empowerment - yahoo" <rti4empowerment-***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Rti_India" <rti_india-***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Thekirti Karnataka Intiative RTI" <thekirti-***@public.gmane.org>, "Y RTI_India - yahoo" <RTI_india-***@public.gmane.org>
Date: Tuesday, 20 September, 2011, 3:06 PM




M. Rangarajan,
(retired Group General Manager ONGC)
B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,
Chellaghatta village,
Bangalore – 560037.
Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581
e-mail: rangajan-/***@public.gmane.org / rangajan-***@public.gmane.org
Dated 20th September 2011
 
Dear friends / RTI activists,
 
I asked for some information from M/s Chennai Petroleum Corporation Ltd, a Government of India Undertaking under Ministry of Petroleum under RTI Act. I am enclosing copy of letter for information of all.
 
The gist of letter is as followes:
 
I quote:
 
In compliance with Sec 3 of Right to Information Act 2005, we request you to kindly send us the proof for citizenship like a copy of Election Identity Card, or a copy of tje Passport issued by Govt. of India or any document duly attested by a Notory Public / Executive magistrate to eable us to procede further.
 
Unquote.
 
I have sought information from many Cental Government Department, State Government Departments, and Public Sector Undertaking etc and so for none .have asked for proof of my Citizenship. This appear to be uncalled for and illigal new trend.
 
I would very much appreciate some advise - how should I procede further. 
 
warm regards / rangarajan
--
JSD Pani
sandeep kumar
2011-09-25 00:39:03 UTC
Permalink
Hon’ble Central Information Commission, New Delhi have decided similar
issue/cases in Mr Ajit Kumar Vs Llit Kala Akademi (CIC/AD/C/09/00429
dated 08.06.2009) and Sh K. Balakrishnan Pillai Banglore Vs National
Human Rights Commission (CIC/OK/C/2008/0016 dated 26.08.08) wherein
the Public Authority were warned for exercising dilatory tactics and
harassing the information seeker by asking him to prove his
citizenship.
Post by JSD PANI
I have read the mails. Let us not go with emotions. Activism is not emotion,
though emotion triggers activism.
Assume that PIO is asking for proof of citizenship as a delay tactics or to
make the applicant frustrate and refrain him from making applications.
Well. At the same time as a responsible citizens we need to respect the
legslation. Legislation say that information can be obtained by the citizens
of India. Hence it becomes our responsibility to provide proof of
citizenship when demanded by the PIO. There are ID's to establish
citizenship.
Regards
JSD Pani
On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Vikram Simha
Dear Captain ,
RTI Act Works on the Idea & Ideal of the Citizen of This Country Being the
Master and All Public servants , Servants of this Master . democracy is For
,by & To the people .
There fore If you Understand this Great Principle and Practice it , There
should Not Be any Address as To the "PLEASE" Because the Public servant
Works at The pleasure of the Master not Vice -versa .
If There are people Who want to scuttle the Act , We Should Not surrender
to Such Persons But Fight them Effuciently
The question of One Being of or From same department , Kith Or kin Does not
arise .
By Your Prefix I Understand you yourself Must be an Ex service man and Are
kindly aware of the Age old proverb "every thing is Fair in love & War "
Since RTI act 2 005 Has a Preamble Which Speaks of "Containing Corruption
and Hold the Govt's & its instrumentalities Accountable to the Governed
and If Relavation of Information in actual Practice is Likely to conflict
..... etc and therefore it is Expedient to provide for Furnishing Certain
Information to Citizen who desire to have it .
Therefore There is a conflict here of the actual practice and RTI Act
2006 Prevails .
Here as Per the Mail The seeker or requester is an retd Officer and He will
Not be in possetion of the ID Card , since He will have surrenderd it at the
time retirement .
Also If You Read the ID Card Will There be a mention or Any Mark , Etching
or Any Indication that the Card Holder is an Citizen of India .
If I am the PIO i will Certainly Query this Next on your submission of the
ID Because i am a dubting tom and want to carry effient Opertation of My
JOB
Due Have any Counter to this line of argument
N vikramsimha , KRIA Katte , #12 Sumeru Sir M N Krishna Rao Road ,
Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 4:54 PM
please send a photo copy of your id which prooves that you are a citizen
of india. please remember there are plenty of people who wants to scuttle
the Act, frustrate an applicant so that he/she stop asking questions,
particularly if one belongs to same deptt.
Subject: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
Date: Tuesday, 20 September, 2011, 3:06 PM
M. Rangarajan,
*(retired Group General Manager ONGC)*
B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,
Chellaghatta village,
*Bangalore** – 560037*.
*Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581*
Dated 20th September 2011
Dear friends / RTI activists,
I asked for some information from M/s Chennai Petroleum Corporation Ltd, a
Government of India Undertaking under Ministry of Petroleum under RTI Act. I
am enclosing copy of letter for information of all.
In compliance with Sec 3 of Right to Information Act 2005, we request you
to kindly send us the proof for citizenship like a copy of Election Identity
Card, or a copy of tje Passport issued by Govt. of India or any document
duly attested by a Notory Public / Executive magistrate to eable us to
procede further.
Unquote.
I have sought information from many Cental Government Department, State
Government Departments, and Public Sector Undertaking etc and so for
none .have asked for proof of my Citizenship. This appear to be uncalled for
and illigal new trend.
I would very much appreciate some advise - how should I procede further.
warm regards / rangarajan
--
JSD Pani
--
Dr. Sandeep Kumar Gupta
989, Sector 15-A, Opposite bishnoi Colony, Hisar-125001, INDIA
Phone: 91-99929-31181
Sant Mathur
2011-09-25 13:48:39 UTC
Permalink
Is there anything great achieved in dealing with insigificant issues,like
the one about the need for presenting ID proof of citizenship,which,as per
the letter of the law in strict sense,the PIO is entitled to seek,and
which,per chance,the PIOs elsewhere have not sought?
On the contrary there is
lesson to be learnt that there should be holisic preparation in presenting
the RTI request to defeat any dilatory tactis.Probably that checklist has
not been proactivel formally/ properly been designed and shared.
Pl appreciate the management principle:
Keep it simple silly.
s p mathur IPS DHP retd
BE MBA PhD(Knowledge Management)
RTI Advisor
Post by JSD PANI
I have read the mails. Let us not go with emotions. Activism is not
emotion, though emotion triggers activism.
Assume that PIO is asking for proof of citizenship as a delay tactics or to
make the applicant frustrate and refrain him from making applications.
Well. At the same time as a responsible citizens we need to respect the
legslation. Legislation say that information can be obtained by the citizens
of India. Hence it becomes our responsibility to provide proof of
citizenship when demanded by the PIO. There are ID's to establish
citizenship.
Regards
JSD Pani
Dear Captain ,
RTI Act Works on the Idea & Ideal of the Citizen of This Country Being the
Master and All Public servants , Servants of this Master . democracy is For
,by & To the people .
There fore If you Understand this Great Principle and Practice it , There
should Not Be any Address as To the "PLEASE" Because the Public servant
Works at The pleasure of the Master not Vice -versa .
If There are people Who want to scuttle the Act , We Should Not surrender
to Such Persons But Fight them Effuciently
The question of One Being of or From same department , Kith Or kin Does
not arise .
By Your Prefix I Understand you yourself Must be an Ex service man and Are
kindly aware of the Age old proverb "every thing is Fair in love & War "
Since RTI act 2 005 Has a Preamble Which Speaks of "Containing Corruption
and Hold the Govt's & its instrumentalities Accountable to the Governed
and If Relavation of Information in actual Practice is Likely to conflict
..... etc and therefore it is Expedient to provide for Furnishing Certain
Information to Citizen who desire to have it .
Therefore There is a conflict here of the actual practice and RTI Act
2006 Prevails .
Here as Per the Mail The seeker or requester is an retd Officer and He
will Not be in possetion of the ID Card , since He will have surrenderd it
at the time retirement .
Also If You Read the ID Card Will There be a mention or Any Mark , Etching
or Any Indication that the Card Holder is an Citizen of India .
If I am the PIO i will Certainly Query this Next on your submission of the
ID Because i am a dubting tom and want to carry effient Opertation of My
JOB
Due Have any Counter to this line of argument
N vikramsimha , KRIA Katte , #12 Sumeru Sir M N Krishna Rao Road ,
Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 4:54 PM
please send a photo copy of your id which prooves that you are a
citizen of india. please remember there are plenty of people who wants to
scuttle the Act, frustrate an applicant so that he/she stop asking
questions, particularly if one belongs to same deptt.
Subject: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
Date: Tuesday, 20 September, 2011, 3:06 PM
M. Rangarajan,
*(retired Group General Manager ONGC)*
B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,
Chellaghatta village,
*Bangalore** – 560037*.
*Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581*
Dated 20th September 2011
Dear friends / RTI activists,
I asked for some information from M/s Chennai Petroleum Corporation Ltd, a
Government of India Undertaking under Ministry of Petroleum under RTI Act. I
am enclosing copy of letter for information of all.
In compliance with Sec 3 of Right to Information Act 2005, we request you
to kindly send us the proof for citizenship like a copy of Election Identity
Card, or a copy of tje Passport issued by Govt. of India or any document
duly attested by a Notory Public / Executive magistrate to eable us to
procede further.
Unquote.
I have sought information from many Cental Government Department, State
Government Departments, and Public Sector Undertaking etc and so for
none .have asked for proof of my Citizenship. This appear to be uncalled for
and illigal new trend.
I would very much appreciate some advise - how should I procede further.
warm regards / rangarajan
--
JSD Pani
M.K. Gupta
2011-09-25 15:24:56 UTC
Permalink
r v not overstrecting an issue. If v are Indian national, we should give proof. 
It is not possible to prove that the demand for the same is genuine or a dialactory tactics.
There are so many important issues in RTI to discuss like the filling up 4 vacant posts of ICs so that we can get fast decision, non-cognisance of complaints by CIC of late by referring most of the complaints to the FAA.  The FAA does not have any authority to penailse the PIO, it can only order to provide the action and beyond that, has no other power.  There r so many other issues also which require serious discussion.

--- On Sun, 25/9/11, Sant Mathur <santmathur-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: Sant Mathur <santmathur-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
To: humjanenge-/***@public.gmane.org
Date: Sunday, 25 September, 2011, 7:18 PM

Is there anything great achieved in dealing with insigificant issues,like the one about the need for presenting ID proof of citizenship,which,as per the letter of the law in strict sense,the PIO is entitled to seek,and which,per chance,the PIOs elsewhere have not sought?

                                                 On the contrary there is lesson to be learnt that there should be holisic preparation in presenting the RTI request to defeat any dilatory tactis.Probably that checklist has not been proactivel formally/ properly been designed and shared.

   Pl appreciate the management principle:
       Keep it simple silly.
s p mathur IPS DHP retd
BE MBA PhD(Knowledge Management)
RTI Advisor 


On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 10:49 AM, JSD PANI <jsdpani-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


I have read the mails. Let us not go with emotions. Activism is not emotion, though emotion triggers activism.
Assume that PIO is asking for proof of citizenship as a delay tactics or to make the applicant frustrate and refrain him from  making applications. Well. At the same time as a responsible citizens we need to respect the legslation. Legislation say that information can be obtained by the citizens of India.  Hence it becomes our responsibility to provide proof of citizenship when demanded by the PIO. There are ID's to establish citizenship.

 
Regards
JSD Pani





On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Vikram Simha <***@yahoo.co.in> wrote:






Dear Captain ,
RTI Act Works on the Idea & Ideal of the Citizen of This Country Being the Master and All Public servants , Servants of this Master . democracy is For ,by & To the people .
There fore If you Understand this Great Principle and Practice it , There should Not Be any Address as To the "PLEASE" Because the Public servant Works at The pleasure of the Master not Vice -versa .

If There are people Who want to scuttle the Act , We Should Not surrender to Such Persons But Fight them Effuciently
The question of One Being of or From same department , Kith Or kin Does not arise .
By Your Prefix I Understand you yourself Must be an Ex service man and Are kindly aware of the Age old proverb "every thing is Fair in love & War "
Since RTI act 2 005 Has a Preamble Which Speaks of "Containing Corruption and Hold the Govt's & its instrumentalities Accountable to the Governed  and  If Relavation of Information in actual Practice is Likely to conflict ..... etc and therefore it is Expedient to provide for Furnishing Certain Information to Citizen who desire to have it .

Therefore There is a conflict here  of the actual practice  and RTI Act 2006 Prevails .
Here as Per the Mail The seeker or requester is an retd Officer and He will Not be in possetion of the ID Card , since He will have surrenderd it at the time retirement .
Also If You Read the ID Card Will There be a mention or Any Mark , Etching or Any Indication that the Card Holder is an Citizen of India .
If I am the PIO i will Certainly Query this Next on your submission of the ID  Because  i am a dubting tom and want to carry effient Opertation of My JOB
Due Have any Counter to this line of argument

N vikramsimha , KRIA Katte , #12 Sumeru Sir M N Krishna Rao Road , Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.

--- On Wed, 21/9/11, capt beniwal <trident142-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:



From: capt beniwal <trident142-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend

To: humjanenge-/***@public.gmane.org
Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 4:54 PM









please send a photo copy of your id which prooves that you are a citizen of india. please remember there are plenty of people who wants to scuttle the Act, frustrate an applicant so that he/she stop asking questions, particularly if one belongs to same deptt.    

--- On Tue, 20/9/11, Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


From: Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend

To: "Y Humjanenge - google" <humjanenge-/***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Humjanenge - yahoo" <humjanenge-hHKSG33TihhqA26CCmlJIf8+***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Adhikar" <***@yahoogroups.com>, "Y Anna Hazare" <annahazare1-***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Aridman" <***@nishanjustice.org>, "Y C K Jam" <rtiwanted-/***@public.gmane.org>, "Y rti_india" <***@googlegroups.com>, "Y Rti$empoerrment - google" <***@googlegroups.com>, "Y rti4empowerment - yahoo" <rti4empowerment-***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Rti_India" <rti_india-***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Thekirti Karnataka Intiative RTI" <thekirti-***@public.gmane.org>, "Y RTI_India - yahoo" <***@yahoogroups.com>

Date: Tuesday, 20 September, 2011, 3:06 PM




M. Rangarajan,
(retired Group General Manager ONGC)
B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,
Chellaghatta village,
Bangalore – 560037.

Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581
e-mail: rangajan-/***@public.gmane.org / rangajan-***@public.gmane.org

Dated 20th September 2011
 
Dear friends / RTI activists,
 
I asked for some information from M/s Chennai Petroleum Corporation Ltd, a Government of India Undertaking under Ministry of Petroleum under RTI Act. I am enclosing copy of letter for information of all.

 
The gist of letter is as followes:
 
I quote:
 
In compliance with Sec 3 of Right to Information Act 2005, we request you to kindly send us the proof for citizenship like a copy of Election Identity Card, or a copy of tje Passport issued by Govt. of India or any document duly attested by a Notory Public / Executive magistrate to eable us to procede further.

 
Unquote.
 
I have sought information from many Cental Government Department, State Government Departments, and Public Sector Undertaking etc and so for none .have asked for proof of my Citizenship. This appear to be uncalled for and illigal new trend.

 
I would very much appreciate some advise - how should I procede further. 
 
warm regards / rangarajan
--
JSD Pani
JSD PANI
2011-09-26 07:16:01 UTC
Permalink
As Shri Sant Mathur rightly puts it, nothing great is achieved in dealing
with such insignificant issues.
I dont want to take this forum to discuss elaborately the difference between
persons living in a geographical area called a NATION and a Citizenship of
that NATION. There could be a CITIZENSHIP of a particular NATION without
even living in that particular geographical area called a NATION.

While drafting a legislation, the Parliament is expected to use all its
wisdom. Information under RTI is made available to only CITIZENS of India
and not to all those living in INDIA for the reasons that the NATION dont
want to and dont need to part the information to other than the citizens of
this NATION. Hope the matter is made more clear now.

By advancing this argument, I am not supporting PIO's asking the applicants
to provide proof of citizenship. Whatever the IDs refered by Shri
Vikramsimha though not provide declaration that one is a CITIZEN, but these
IDs can be obtained only by citizens of India and thus establish the
citizenship.

Any way I appreciate such discussions which helps us sharpen our knowledge
..

Regards
JSD Pani
Post by Sant Mathur
Is there anything great achieved in dealing with insigificant issues,like
the one about the need for presenting ID proof of citizenship,which,as per
the letter of the law in strict sense,the PIO is entitled to seek,and
which,per chance,the PIOs elsewhere have not sought?
On the contrary there is
lesson to be learnt that there should be holisic preparation in presenting
the RTI request to defeat any dilatory tactis.Probably that checklist has
not been proactivel formally/ properly been designed and shared.
Keep it simple silly.
s p mathur IPS DHP retd
BE MBA PhD(Knowledge Management)
RTI Advisor
Post by JSD PANI
I have read the mails. Let us not go with emotions. Activism is not
emotion, though emotion triggers activism.
Assume that PIO is asking for proof of citizenship as a delay tactics or
to make the applicant frustrate and refrain him from making applications.
Well. At the same time as a responsible citizens we need to respect the
legslation. Legislation say that information can be obtained by the citizens
of India. Hence it becomes our responsibility to provide proof of
citizenship when demanded by the PIO. There are ID's to establish
citizenship.
Regards
JSD Pani
On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Vikram Simha <
Dear Captain ,
RTI Act Works on the Idea & Ideal of the Citizen of This Country Being
the Master and All Public servants , Servants of this Master . democracy is
For ,by & To the people .
There fore If you Understand this Great Principle and Practice it , There
should Not Be any Address as To the "PLEASE" Because the Public servant
Works at The pleasure of the Master not Vice -versa .
If There are people Who want to scuttle the Act , We Should Not surrender
to Such Persons But Fight them Effuciently
The question of One Being of or From same department , Kith Or kin Does
not arise .
By Your Prefix I Understand you yourself Must be an Ex service man and
Are kindly aware of the Age old proverb "every thing is Fair in love & War "
Since RTI act 2 005 Has a Preamble Which Speaks of "Containing Corruption
and Hold the Govt's & its instrumentalities Accountable to the Governed
and If Relavation of Information in actual Practice is Likely to conflict
..... etc and therefore it is Expedient to provide for Furnishing Certain
Information to Citizen who desire to have it .
Therefore There is a conflict here of the actual practice and RTI Act
2006 Prevails .
Here as Per the Mail The seeker or requester is an retd Officer and He
will Not be in possetion of the ID Card , since He will have surrenderd it
at the time retirement .
Also If You Read the ID Card Will There be a mention or Any Mark ,
Etching or Any Indication that the Card Holder is an Citizen of India .
If I am the PIO i will Certainly Query this Next on your submission of
the ID Because i am a dubting tom and want to carry effient Opertation of
My JOB
Due Have any Counter to this line of argument
N vikramsimha , KRIA Katte , #12 Sumeru Sir M N Krishna Rao Road ,
Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 4:54 PM
please send a photo copy of your id which prooves that you are a
citizen of india. please remember there are plenty of people who wants to
scuttle the Act, frustrate an applicant so that he/she stop asking
questions, particularly if one belongs to same deptt.
Subject: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
Date: Tuesday, 20 September, 2011, 3:06 PM
M. Rangarajan,
*(retired Group General Manager ONGC)*
B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,
Chellaghatta village,
*Bangalore** – 560037*.
*Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581*
Dated 20th September 2011
Dear friends / RTI activists,
I asked for some information from M/s Chennai Petroleum Corporation Ltd,
a Government of India Undertaking under Ministry of Petroleum under RTI Act.
I am enclosing copy of letter for information of all.
In compliance with Sec 3 of Right to Information Act 2005, we request you
to kindly send us the proof for citizenship like a copy of Election Identity
Card, or a copy of tje Passport issued by Govt. of India or any document
duly attested by a Notory Public / Executive magistrate to eable us to
procede further.
Unquote.
I have sought information from many Cental Government Department, State
Government Departments, and Public Sector Undertaking etc and so for
none .have asked for proof of my Citizenship. This appear to be uncalled for
and illigal new trend.
I would very much appreciate some advise - how should I procede further.
warm regards / rangarajan
--
JSD Pani
--
JSD Pani
Vikram Simha
2011-09-27 08:55:23 UTC
Permalink
Dear Freinds ,
I was in Four different Govt organisations before taking Voluntary retirement . I Have come across this type of Bureacratic or British mindset  of All our officials right From top to Bottom . When the Wisdom of the parliament When During the process of the Drafting of the RTI act took 153 Revisions and Redoing nowhere and at No point there was Contest ot conflict of Interest and interpretation , nor there was an Suggestion of a Corollary or Requisite that the designated PIO should Call for demand production of an ID Card or proof of Citizen ship geographical or Not . In Such a sitiuation There should Be No compromise by any Person Calling them "enlightened" & "activists" to succumb to such Demands of absurd Nature From Doubting toms .
In Fact When the RBI Issued Release of FARMERS GREENCARD , a Passport to Quick and on Spot Renewal of thier Crop loans (Khariff , rabi, Summer) One Person Sitting in an AC office Wanted that Simplified Application for FGC be Tagged with another Document
virtually Stating that he is A Farmer from the Gramsevak .
These Type of Demand May seem Insignificant to certain persons but Infact Are Rituals in a sense and will get Mired by Lots & lots of subsequent Processing Queries  Which is why The act speaks of time Bound Parting Of information .
If one goes through Page 12 Para 14 , 15 , 16 of the Delhi high court Orders in Mujibur Rehman Vs CIC pronunced by J.RavindraBhatt , the implications and unwarrented manifistetions of such silly and Absurd interpretions or Rather Userping Powers of the Legislation will Come to fore .
Therefore My Argument Goes to the Root cause and it Demands Why in the case You are Demanding the Proof When you are Not empowered to seek one  and if You find that you are qualifing to your Perception of Not being the citizen , It is your responsibility to Use Section 8 Suitably  
N vikramsimha , KRIA Koota, #12 Sumeru Sir M N Krishna Rao Road , Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.

--- On Mon, 26/9/11, JSD PANI <jsdpani-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


From: JSD PANI <jsdpani-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
To: humjanenge-/***@public.gmane.org
Date: Monday, 26 September, 2011, 12:46 PM


As Shri Sant Mathur rightly puts it, nothing great is achieved in dealing with such insignificant issues. 
I dont want to take this forum to discuss elaborately the difference between persons living in a geographical area called a NATION and a Citizenship of that NATION. There could be a CITIZENSHIP of a particular NATION without even living in that particular geographical area called a  NATION. 


While drafting a legislation, the Parliament is expected to use all its wisdom. Information under RTI is made available to only CITIZENS of India and not to all those living in INDIA for the reasons that the NATION dont want to and dont need to part the information to other than the citizens of this NATION. Hope the matter is made more clear now.


By advancing this argument, I am not supporting PIO's asking the applicants to provide proof of citizenship. Whatever the IDs refered by Shri Vikramsimha though not provide declaration that one is  a CITIZEN, but these IDs can be obtained only by citizens of India and thus establish the citizenship.


Any way I appreciate such discussions which helps us sharpen our knowledge ..


Regards
JSD Pani


On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Sant Mathur <santmathur-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


Is there anything great achieved in dealing with insigificant issues,like the one about the need for presenting ID proof of citizenship,which,as per the letter of the law in strict sense,the PIO is entitled to seek,and which,per chance,the PIOs elsewhere have not sought?
                                                 On the contrary there is lesson to be learnt that there should be holisic preparation in presenting the RTI request to defeat any dilatory tactis.Probably that checklist has not been proactivel formally/ properly been designed and shared.
   Pl appreciate the management principle:
       Keep it simple silly.
s p mathur IPS DHP retd
BE MBA PhD(Knowledge Management)
RTI Advisor 





On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 10:49 AM, JSD PANI <jsdpani-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


I have read the mails. Let us not go with emotions. Activism is not emotion, though emotion triggers activism.
Assume that PIO is asking for proof of citizenship as a delay tactics or to make the applicant frustrate and refrain him from  making applications. Well. At the same time as a responsible citizens we need to respect the legslation. Legislation say that information can be obtained by the citizens of India.  Hence it becomes our responsibility to provide proof of citizenship when demanded by the PIO. There are ID's to establish citizenship.
 
Regards
JSD Pani





On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Vikram Simha <vikramsimha54-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:






Dear Captain ,
RTI Act Works on the Idea & Ideal of the Citizen of This Country Being the Master and All Public servants , Servants of this Master . democracy is For ,by & To the people .
There fore If you Understand this Great Principle and Practice it , There should Not Be any Address as To the "PLEASE" Because the Public servant Works at The pleasure of the Master not Vice -versa .
If There are people Who want to scuttle the Act , We Should Not surrender to Such Persons But Fight them Effuciently
The question of One Being of or From same department , Kith Or kin Does not arise .
By Your Prefix I Understand you yourself Must be an Ex service man and Are kindly aware of the Age old proverb "every thing is Fair in love & War "
Since RTI act 2 005 Has a Preamble Which Speaks of "Containing Corruption and Hold the Govt's & its instrumentalities Accountable to the Governed  and  If Relavation of Information in actual Practice is Likely to conflict ..... etc and therefore it is Expedient to provide for Furnishing Certain Information to Citizen who desire to have it .
Therefore There is a conflict here  of the actual practice  and RTI Act 2006 Prevails .
Here as Per the Mail The seeker or requester is an retd Officer and He will Not be in possetion of the ID Card , since He will have surrenderd it at the time retirement .
Also If You Read the ID Card Will There be a mention or Any Mark , Etching or Any Indication that the Card Holder is an Citizen of India .
If I am the PIO i will Certainly Query this Next on your submission of the ID  Because  i am a dubting tom and want to carry effient Opertation of My JOB
Due Have any Counter to this line of argument

N vikramsimha , KRIA Katte , #12 Sumeru Sir M N Krishna Rao Road , Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.

--- On Wed, 21/9/11, capt beniwal <trident142-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


From: capt beniwal <trident142-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
To: humjanenge-/***@public.gmane.org
Date: Wednesday, 21 September, 2011, 4:54 PM









please send a photo copy of your id which prooves that you are a citizen of india. please remember there are plenty of people who wants to scuttle the Act, frustrate an applicant so that he/she stop asking questions, particularly if one belongs to same deptt.    
--- On Tue, 20/9/11, Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


From: Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
To: "Y Humjanenge - google" <humjanenge-/***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Humjanenge - yahoo" <humjanenge-hHKSG33TihhqA26CCmlJIf8+***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Adhikar" <adhikaar-hHKSG33Tihh9OS/***@public.gmane.orgm>, "Y Anna Hazare" <annahazare1-***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Aridman" <***@nishanjustice.org>, "Y C K Jam" <rtiwanted-/***@public.gmane.org>, "Y rti_india" <***@googlegroups.com>, "Y Rti$empoerrment - google" <***@googlegroups.com>, "Y rti4empowerment - yahoo" <rti4empowerment-***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Rti_India" <rti_india-***@public.gmane.org>, "Y Thekirti Karnataka Intiative RTI" <thekirti-***@public.gmane.org>, "Y RTI_India - yahoo" <RTI_india-***@public.gmane.org>
Date: Tuesday, 20 September, 2011, 3:06 PM




M. Rangarajan,
(retired Group General Manager ONGC)
B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,
Chellaghatta village,
Bangalore – 560037.
Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581
e-mail: rangajan-/***@public.gmane.org / rangajan-***@public.gmane.org
Dated 20th September 2011
 
Dear friends / RTI activists,
 
I asked for some information from M/s Chennai Petroleum Corporation Ltd, a Government of India Undertaking under Ministry of Petroleum under RTI Act. I am enclosing copy of letter for information of all.
 
The gist of letter is as followes:
 
I quote:
 
In compliance with Sec 3 of Right to Information Act 2005, we request you to kindly send us the proof for citizenship like a copy of Election Identity Card, or a copy of tje Passport issued by Govt. of India or any document duly attested by a Notory Public / Executive magistrate to eable us to procede further.
 
Unquote.
 
I have sought information from many Cental Government Department, State Government Departments, and Public Sector Undertaking etc and so for none .have asked for proof of my Citizenship. This appear to be uncalled for and illigal new trend.
 
I would very much appreciate some advise - how should I procede further. 
 
warm regards / rangarajan
--
JSD Pani
--
JSD Pani
Dwarakanath
2011-10-01 01:01:54 UTC
Permalink
Friend, Section 6(2) of the RTI ACt is herewith reproduced:

(2)

"

An applicant making request for information shall not be required to give
any reason for requesting the information or any other personal details
except those that may be necessary for contacting him.".

Section 3 of the Act is only a directive to the concerned authorities how
and in what form etc., to prepare and keep the information of their day to
day activities and does not enable them to ask any question whatsoever. It
only emphasises the duty of the State towrds the Citizens. Neither the
object of this Law nor the provisions of this section/sub-section authorises
the State, to verify who is the applicant. If the authorities suspect the
bonafides or the information sought is of such serious nature, they have
every possibility of verifying the citizenship of the applicant through the
Police/CCB , CBI, Defence or other agencies who are exclusively meant for
it, if the information asked for is protected or prohibited under the RTI
Act. 30 days time limit provided for the authorities to give you the
information. If u do not get the information in 30 days, you hae the right
to complaint to the Informatin Commissioner deeming that this authority has
refused to give u the information and request to pemalise them according to
the RTI Act. However, if the Oil company needs to verify your citizenship,
they can separately take it up through authorised agencies without asking
you for any proof. regards, dwarakanthdm
M. Rangarajan,******
*(retired Group General Manager ONGC)*
B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,****
Chellaghatta village,****
*******Bangalore****** – 560037*.****
*Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581*
Dated 20th September 2011
Dear friends / RTI activists,
I asked for some information from M/s Chennai Petroleum Corporation Ltd, a
Government of India Undertaking under Ministry of Petroleum under RTI Act. I
am enclosing copy of letter for information of all.
In compliance with Sec 3 of Right to Information Act 2005, we request you
to kindly send us the proof for citizenship like a copy of Election Identity
Card, or a copy of tje Passport issued by Govt. of India or any document
duly attested by a Notory Public / Executive magistrate to eable us to
procede further.
Unquote.
I have sought information from many Cental Government Department, State
Government Departments, and Public Sector Undertaking etc and so for
none .have asked for proof of my Citizenship. This appear to be uncalled for
and illigal new trend.
I would very much appreciate some advise - how should I procede further.
warm regards / rangarajan
sandeep kumar
2011-10-01 04:42:19 UTC
Permalink
Please send me the rti application. let me pursue the matter.
regards
sandeep
Post by Dwarakanath
(2)
"
An applicant making request for information shall not be required to give
any reason for requesting the information or any other personal details
except those that may be necessary for contacting him.".
Section 3 of the Act is only a directive to the concerned authorities how
and in what form etc., to prepare and keep the information of their day to
day activities and does not enable them to ask any question whatsoever. It
only emphasises the duty of the State towrds the Citizens. Neither the
object of this Law nor the provisions of this section/sub-section authorises
the State, to verify who is the applicant. If the authorities suspect the
bonafides or the information sought is of such serious nature, they have
every possibility of verifying the citizenship of the applicant through the
Police/CCB , CBI, Defence or other agencies who are exclusively meant for
it, if the information asked for is protected or prohibited under the RTI
Act. 30 days time limit provided for the authorities to give you the
information. If u do not get the information in 30 days, you hae the right
to complaint to the Informatin Commissioner deeming that this authority has
refused to give u the information and request to pemalise them according to
the RTI Act. However, if the Oil company needs to verify your citizenship,
they can separately take it up through authorised agencies without asking
you for any proof. regards, dwarakanthdm
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Mathre Rangarajan
M. Rangarajan,******
*(retired Group General Manager ONGC)*
B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,****
Chellaghatta village,****
*******Bangalore****** – 560037*.****
*Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581*
Dated 20th September 2011
Dear friends / RTI activists,
I asked for some information from M/s Chennai Petroleum Corporation Ltd, a
Government of India Undertaking under Ministry of Petroleum under RTI Act. I
am enclosing copy of letter for information of all.
In compliance with Sec 3 of Right to Information Act 2005, we request you
to kindly send us the proof for citizenship like a copy of Election Identity
Card, or a copy of tje Passport issued by Govt. of India or any document
duly attested by a Notory Public / Executive magistrate to eable us to
procede further.
Unquote.
I have sought information from many Cental Government Department, State
Government Departments, and Public Sector Undertaking etc and so for
none .have asked for proof of my Citizenship. This appear to be uncalled for
and illigal new trend.
I would very much appreciate some advise - how should I procede further.
warm regards / rangarajan
--
Dr. Sandeep Kumar Gupta
989, Sector 15-A, Opposite bishnoi Colony, Hisar-125001, INDIA
Phone: 91-99929-31181
Vikram Simha
2011-10-01 03:53:08 UTC
Permalink
That is the Reason i Have Contened that the PIO is not at all delegated , relgated nor has discretionary powers to Verify one's Citizenship . He is Actually Userping the powers of the Legislation . He Does not have any vested powers to verify one's Bonafides .
I Gor sucess when the PIO from LIC Blore Did the Same "doubting tom" Work when i Made another RTI to his Admin asking Them How this Person was recurited when he has Provided Proof of his Citizenship and a Copy was sent that person .
I Have Learnt through Various Sources that Certain Persons Who are basically "only Trainers" have Given a Sermon that This ascpet Can Be Quired by an PIO . However They are ignoring one more Clause in the Act 21 Protection of an act done /carried in good faith .
The Best way to Tackle this Make several RTI to DoPT

N vikramsimha , KRIA Koota , #12 Sumeru Sir M N Krishna Rao Road , Basvangudi < Bangalore 560004.

--- On Sat, 1/10/11, Dwarakanath <dwarakanathdm-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:


From: Dwarakanath <dwarakanathdm-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] RTI reply - a new trend
To: humjanenge-/***@public.gmane.org
Date: Saturday, 1 October, 2011, 6:31 AM



Friend,  Section 6(2) of the RTI ACt is herewith reproduced:






(2)

 "

An applicant making request for information shall not be required to give any reason for requesting the information or any other personal details except those that may be necessary for contacting him.".
Section 3 of the Act is only a directive to the concerned authorities how and in what form etc., to prepare and keep the information of their day to day activities and does not enable them to  ask any question whatsoever.  It only emphasises the duty of the State towrds the Citizens.   Neither the object of this Law nor the provisions of this section/sub-section authorises the State, to verify who is the applicant.   If the authorities suspect the bonafides or the information sought is of such serious nature, they have every possibility of verifying the citizenship of the applicant through the Police/CCB , CBI, Defence or other agencies who are exclusively meant for it, if the information asked for is protected or prohibited under the RTI Act.   30 days time limit provided for the authorities to give you the information.  If u do not get the information in 30 days, you hae the right to complaint to the Informatin Commissioner deeming that
this authority has refused to give u the information and request to pemalise them according to the RTI Act.  However, if the Oil company needs to verify your citizenship, they can separately take it up through authorised agencies without asking you for any proof.  regards,   dwarakanthdm

 
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:




M. Rangarajan,
(retired Group General Manager ONGC)
B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,
Chellaghatta village,
Bangalore – 560037.
Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581
e-mail: rangajan-/***@public.gmane.org / rangajan-***@public.gmane.org
Dated 20th September 2011
 
Dear friends / RTI activists,
 
I asked for some information from M/s Chennai Petroleum Corporation Ltd, a Government of India Undertaking under Ministry of Petroleum under RTI Act. I am enclosing copy of letter for information of all.
 
The gist of letter is as followes:
 
I quote:
 
In compliance with Sec 3 of Right to Information Act 2005, we request you to kindly send us the proof for citizenship like a copy of Election Identity Card, or a copy of tje Passport issued by Govt. of India or any document duly attested by a Notory Public / Executive magistrate to eable us to procede further.
 
Unquote.
 
I have sought information from many Cental Government Department, State Government Departments, and Public Sector Undertaking etc and so for none .have asked for proof of my Citizenship. This appear to be uncalled for and illigal new trend.
 
I would very much appreciate some advise - how should I procede further. 
 
warm regards / rangarajan

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